“HE’S CONDUCTING THE INTERVIEW OF…A LUNCHTIME?!”
All it took was a casual remark by T’Mershi Duween
editor, Fred Tomsett, a couple of phone calls, and four days later I’m sitting
in the Queen Elizabeth Hall on London’s South Bank watching Kent Nagano
rehearse the London Sinfonietta, a tape machine in my hand. Kent was taking the
relaxed 9-piece ensemble through Boulez’s ‘Mémoriale’ in readiness for a concert that evening
commemorating Japanese composer Toru Takemitsu’s 60th birthday. The
rehearsals over, I am ushered into the ‘Green Room’ to chat with the man about
his stick wiggling exploits for FZ.
IB: Firstly,
I’d like to ask you how you met and became involved with Frank Zappa.
KN: I was visiting IRCAM in Paris – some of my friends
worked there under the patronage of Pierre Boulez – and I saw the list of the
various pieces that were to be performed in the future. Included on that list
were some pieces by Frank Zappa. Now, being a Californian, and Frank Zappa
comes from California too…
IB: You’re actually based out in America, are you?
KN: I live in San Francisco. Of course, for us Frank
Zappa is someone that everyone knows – regardless of whether you’re involved in
popular music or not, everyone knows Frank Zappa – he’s one of the most well
known people over there. I was really surprised, and I said, “Why are you doing
Frank Zappa’s music?” and my friend said, “Well, it seems he’s written a number
of serious compositions and he wanted the Ensemble to perform it, and Pierre Boulez
has agreed to conduct it.” So the next time Frank Zappa toured through the Bay
area – the San Francisco area – I contacted his manager.
IB: Bennett Glotzer?
KN: Yes, and asked him to request that he send me some
scores. Then I got a message that Frank Zappa wanted to meet me during the
intermission of one of his concerts.
IB: Was that about 1981 or 82?
KN: Yes, somewhere around then. And it was the first
time in my life that I’d been to a rock concert. It was a phenomenal
experience; it was packed, completely sold out, millions of fans, everyone just
incredibly excited and enthusiastic. I remember meeting Frank Zappa and his
entourage, and meeting his bodyguard.
IB: John Smothers?
KN: Yes, who scared the hell out of me! Anyway, he
showed me these scores - which he allowed me to keep - and they were indeed
extraordinary. Extraordinary quality, very surprising that anybody could write
something so original, much less someone who wasn’t known in the classical
music field. So I asked Frank if I could perform some of the pieces in
California because they looked really interesting. So that was fine. And then I
received a telephone call out of the blue many months later – because I never
heard anything form Frank for a long time; he’d said he wanted to think about
it because he had had a few performances of his music done recently that were
so poorly prepared he was really choosing much more carefully the groups that
he would allow to perform his music. He didn’t want his music to be massacred,
which is very easy to do; it’s such difficult music.
IB: This is something that has come up in interviews
throughout his career; that he’s unhappy with the performances.
KN: He’s absolutely right. People don’t treat them
seriously, and if its not treated seriously it doesn’t give an accurate reading
of what the piece is. So he was considering whether or not he would let me
perform the music with my orchestra for several months. I never got a positive
or a negative answer from him. But what I did receive about 4 months later was
a telephone call asking if I’d be interested in recording a couple of albums of
his music with the London Symphony.
IB: Had you worked with them before?
KN: No, in fact I had never really worked with any,
what I would call, strong world-class orchestra before.
IB: Just the Berkeley Symphony Orchestra?
KN: Yes, they were a small Symphony…they were not
really a full big-time orchestra. Now they are, but at the time they weren’t
full time. So, of course, I was delighted. It was much more than ‘would I be
interested’; I considered it a privilege, a real honour to be able to work with
someone like Frank. We did some initial rehearsals together at his home in Los
Angeles, and there I realised that it was indeed going to be an extremely
exciting project. From my knowledge of his music and his incredible
musicianship, I knew that for him it was just as important to have music
performed as close to perfection as possible as it was for me. That’s one
reason why I got my reputation - both negatively and positively - because I
rehearse until its really very, very accurate.
IB: I think he was unhappy with the amount of time the
LSO rehearsed – he quoted 38 days, which to me sounds a phenomenal time.
KN: It was a phenomenal amount of time for the London
Symphony, but in all fairness, the writing is extremely difficult – its very,
very difficult – and that was such a gruelling and intense period. I think its
fair to say that the London Symphony, when they heard they were doing Frank
Zappa’s music, had no idea what that really meant in terms of the complexity.
But I will say that they were really quite phenomenal; they worked so hard and
I really fell in love with the orchestra, just as a group.
IB: As they did with you – didn’t they hang a sign on
your podium?
KN: Yes! (laughs) They hung a sign on my podium, which
they had torn off of one of the electrical transformers, which said “DANGER –
LIVE CONDUCTOR”. I still have that plaque. But they really gave 100%, and they
appreciated Frank’s music; at the end they gave him an ovation that was for
Frank and for his music. It was wonderful.
IB: At the time, I think Frank was quite happy too,
but subsequently he’s made a few comments about their performance at the
Barbican. There’s a huge bar at the back, and he was unhappy with the second
half of the show – he thought they had been drinking too much.
KN: Um…well, I don’t know. I wasn’t aware of any of
that.
IB: Also, on the last recording session, the trumpet
section was late back, necessitating 50 edits in 6½ minutes of music. I
certainly could not pick up any errors from what I’ve heard on the recording on
‘Volume 2’.
KN: Well, that’s because Frank is such a superb
editor. In fact, I’ve even entertained thoughts of doing a classical record
with him in the recording truck, because he’s an incredible, incredible
musician.
IB: Do you actually compose yourself?
KN: I have written, but I’m not an active composer.
I’ve studied composition. But in all fairness to the orchestra, the music is
humanly very, very difficult, and when you’re doing two - sometimes three -
sessions a day, it’s pretty hard to keep your chops going.
IB: Do you know if there were any pieces recorded by
the London Symphony Orchestra that have yet to be released?
KN: By Frank?
IB: By Frank, yes.
KN: I think we have some parts of some pieces. The
idea was to get as many pieces as we possibly could as close to perfection as
we could, to see if we might be able to get something like that.
IB: I think there are seven pieces that have been
released now. Its all going to come out on CD soon, that’s his next hope – to
remix it…
KN: Well, for me, its phenomenal music. I just did a
re-performance of some of his pieces in Lyon.
IB: I’ve been sent a review of that, but its in French
and I can’t translate it. Somebody who did said that you were the Musical
Director of the Orchestra de Lyon.
KN: Yes, I am indeed.
IB: I assumed that perhaps you lived there, but you
say not. You’re based in San Francisco.
KN: I divide my time between Lyon and San Francisco.
IB: That was with a ballet performance as well?
KN: That’s right.
IB: Did you actually record ‘Sinister Footwear’? I
heard that was due to be recorded, and the Ballet was going to tour with the
tape.
KN: That’s what we wanted to do. When I requested a
number of rehearsals, that wasn’t so much of a problem – that’s why I felt so
enthusiastic that we could finally get it because there, since I’m Musical
Director, I can book as many rehearsals as I feel necessary. The problem came
with the fact that there were a number of instruments that we didn’t normally
carry in the orchestra – like bass flute, alto flute, contrabass clarinet,
things like that – and the enormous expense of hiring all the extras, we would
have had to hire something like 35 extras, and that’s when it became fiscally
impossible.
IB: So you didn’t do any recordings of the
performances?
KN: Unfortunately, we didn’t. I was really sad about
that actually, because ‘Sinister Footwear’ for me is…that’s a great piece.
IB: The only orchestral works I know really are
Zappa’s, and those by people that have inspired him – like Webern and Varèse.
That I find is one of the more accessible pieces.
KN: ‘Sinister Footwear’ to me is one of the best
pieces that he’s written and it doesn’t exist in a recording.
IB: I’ve heard a tape of it from the June 1984
performance at the Zellerbach Auditorium…
KN: That was us, yeah…
IB: …with the marionettes!
KN: And that gives a loose idea, but its not…it really
needs a studio recording.
IB: There are also some ‘rock band’ versions of that,
or extracts from it.
KN: Yeah, but it should be done with an orchestra
IB: Is it within your power to commission a piece by
Zappa so that he can write for the instruments that are readily available to
you?
KN: Yeah, it is possible. At this point Frank doesn’t
seem to be interested in writing for human orchestras.
IB: He’s playing with the Synclavier down in the
basement.
KN: And he’s been frustrated in a sense; the way that
his mind works its such a sophisticated, complex mind that his impatience when
people can’t go at the same pace gets him down sometimes. I think he has been
frustrated that musicians just don’t…yeah, we don’t care enough really, we
don’t care to the point where we will practice until its perfect. I mean most
of us don’t. For me, it makes a big difference, but the real constraints of the
economic realities of a symphony orchestra do place economic limits on how much
time you can place….
IB: Have you seen The Real Frank Zappa Book?
KN: No. Well, yes - I’ve seen the book. But I haven’t
had a chance to read it yet.
IB: It goes into great detail about the complexities
of organising a performance of one of his pieces and the phenomenal cost of it
all.
KN: Phenomenal cost. And you know, Frank, when
he does his rock music, its no less complicated. But they rehearse until its
perfect, and then they go out on the road. Which means if it takes 2 months of
rehearsal, its 2 months of rehearsal. In the symphonic world, the financial
realities just don’t make that possible right now. And its frustrating for
someone who’s written music that he knows is totally playable, given enough
rehearsal time…I totally understand his point…he’s right, in fact.
IB: He’s been writing orchestral pieces for a long
time, but it seems the rock world is where he finances it. I think in the
future we’ll see him going off into more orchestral works and hiding away with
the Synclavier. He’s always talking about giving up touring – he’s said that
many times. Have you any idea what his plans are? Has he any collaborations
lined up with you in the future?
KN: No, not for the moment.
IB: But you do hope to get together again sometime?
KN: Well, every time I’m in Los Angeles, I go and
visit the Zappa family. I have enormous, enormous respect for Frank. For
several reasons: one, because he’s a great composer; and, two, because he gave
me my first chance. People don’t realise that he recognised…he made telephone
calls, and he did investigations of what my reputation was – but someone has to
give a young conductor their first chance. And Frank gave me my first chance,
and I’ll always be grateful to Frank for that.
IB: He pays tribute to you as well; he thinks you are
a world-class conductor, and he thinks you can do things that conductors who
have been working for 50 years can’t do.
KN: Really? I didn’t realise that.
IB: Thinks you’re “fantastic”, he says.
KN: When you stop and think about it, someone in his
position could have hired anybody that he wanted, and the fact that he gave me
a chance; I never ever will forget that. Because I have a career now. Had to
start some place.
IB: So the LSO was really the big break for you?
KN: Well, it was one of the breaks. It certainly was
the first time that I got to work with a superior orchestra.
IB: Do you know how Boulez feels about Zappa’s music?
I get the impression from what I’ve seen that he doesn’t take it altogether
seriously – possibly because of Zappa’s ‘rock’ background.
KN: I don’t have that impression. I find that he finds
it fascinating
IB: I know they seem to be friendly – they did an
interview together last year some time…
KN: I think that he is fascinated by his music.
IB: Okay. Thanks very much. That’s great.
KN: You’re welcome.
***
A fredited version of this interview originally
appeared in Issue 16 of T’Mershi Duween. Photo of Kent in the Green Room
taken by the Idiot Bastard.