“ONE MORE TIME FOR THE WORLD”
Shortly
before a drum Master Class on Sunday 27 September 1992, a slightly jet-lagged
Terry Ted Bozzio (TB) spoke to an incredibly nervous Idiot Bastard (IB)
backstage at the Grand Theatre, Clapham Junction. Though their discussion was
quite brief, Terry spoke openly and….er, Frankly. Now read on. Dot, dot, dot.
IB: First
of all, how’s your pickle?
TB: How’s my pickle? Its
just fine.
IB: Could you tell me a
little bit about how you came to audition for Frank?
TB: Well, basically: I heard
from Eddie Henderson – who I was playing with at the time – that George Duke
had said that Zappa was looking for someone. Never heard his music. Three days
before the audition, I decided to buy a couple of albums – ‘Live At The Roxy’
and ‘Apostrophe(‘)’. Didn’t sleep for the next three days. Flew myself down to
LA. Went to Zappa’s warehouse – you know, he had a big huge stage, sound and
light equipment I’d never seen before. Most difficult music I’d ever seen
spread all over the stage. There was about 50 drummers around. There were two
Ludwig Octaplus sets set up. And one drummer would set one kit up while the
other one would audition. And they were going back and forth, dropping like
flies. So I thought I’d never get this gig, so I asked some friends if they’d
heard about a Weather Report audition, because I heard that they were looking
for a drummer and I knew I wasn’t gonna get this gig. And they said, well
Frank’s drummer left…
IB: Chester Thompson?
TB: …yeah, to join them. So that made me even more
discouraged. But I thought, well I paid the money to come down here, I owe it
to myself to try. The one thing I’d noticed was a lot of the drummers were sort
of flaunting their chops. I thought the least I could do was go up there and
listen and try and play with the guy. So I did the best I could; sight-reading
a very difficult piece, memorising a very difficult piece, jamming with a very
odd time signature – like 19 – and then playing a blues shuffle. At the end of
that, Frank said “You sound great, I’d like to hear you – after I hear the rest
of these guys – again.” And I turned to his road manager, his road manager
turns to the twenty or so guys that were hanging around, and they’re all
shaking their heads, and the road manager turns around and says, “That’s it,
nobody else wants to play after Terry.” So Frank turns to me and says “Looks
like you’ve got the gig if you want it.” So I was completely blown away.
IB: What had you been doing up until that point?
TB: I’d gone to school; studied jazz and classical
music for 2˝-3 years. Played a rock show called Godspell. And then
started to play with all the jazz/Latin guys around San Francisco. I played
with 2 or 3 guys who’d been with Herbie Hancock’s band, Eddie Henderson, Julian
Priester, Al Jackson. I was in a band called Listen with Andy Narell, the steel
drum player. I was in Azteca with Sheila E’s father.
IB: Later on you actually worked with Herbie Hancock
and Dweezil – on the soundtrack to Back To The Beach.
TB: Yeah, just on that session.
IB: Is that what led to you playing on Dweezil’s
second album?
TB: I don’t know if that led to it. Dweezil has been
around in my life since he was like so high.
IB: It says on the sleeve that you played ‘at short
notice’.
TB: Yeah, Gail called me and said Dweezil would love
me to play on some tracks on his album, and I said “Sure”.
IB: Your time with Frank was during the Warner Bros
lawsuit. I guess there was lots of rehearsing and experimentation going on –
what songs do you particularly remember from that period?
TB: From that period? I remember when Frank went
through the lawsuit thing, he said he might not be able to pay us. We all said
we we’re willing to hang for a few months as long as the savings held out in
the hopes that things would get better. And Frank was really depressed in that
time. It was just me and Patrick O’Hearn and Eddie Jobson. And I was gonna be
the sort of lead singer, and do the stuff that Napoleon did. It was a very
strange time, you know. And then he got Ray White – we auditioned lots of
singers. I remember doing ‘Pound For A Brown’, er….oh God, ‘The Torture Never
Stops’…
IB: The ‘Zoot Allures’ album was basically just you
two with a few ‘guest’ musicians, including Captain Beefheart…
TB: Yeah, he was in the first line-up I toured with.
IB: One of the songs I liked from that period was ‘The
Ocean Is The Ultimate Solution’, with you and Patrick O’Hearn.
TB: Yeah, actually what happened was me and Dave
Parlato and Frank jammed at the Record Plant for about 35 minutes – filled up
two reels of tape. And Zappa, out of all that material, edited it down to about
13 minutes. And he played it on a real interesting Fender 12-string that had a
Barcus Berry in the neck. He had the bottom strings turned to Major 7ths …I
think he had every string tuned to a different interval, so it was like a Major
7th then a Minor 7th. The next ones were, you know, a
tri-tone Major 3rd and a Minor 3rd. And he had the low
strings panned left, and the high strings panned right, and the Barcus Berry panned
centre; he had this glass-shattering 12-string sound, it was really unique. So
we just jammed. And then he…Patrick was playing with Joe Henderson at the
Lighthouse and I went to see him play one night. He was staying at my house. I
brought him home. And he had this big bass in the car. He didn’t want to leave
it in the car, so he brought it inside. And that was how Patrick auditioned for
Frank. You know, Frank said, “You play that thing?” Patrick said “Yeah!” He
goes “Whip it out” And he put him in the studio. Patrick had already played a
gig at 2 or 3 in the morning and he had to play ‘The Ocean Is The Ultimate
Solution’ as sort of an audition. So he got the gig, and played great bass
through it. And Frank put an electric guitar solo on there. It was fun.
IB: Apparently a drum out-take from that was used for
‘Friendly Little Finger’, using his Xenochrony technique like on ‘Rubber
Shirt’.
TB: It wouldn’t surprise me.
IB: I’ve got to talk about the ‘Black Page’ – he said
that he wrote that because you were such a talented drummer and he knew you
would be able to play it. Could you tell me a little about how you learnt it?
TB: Well, basically he walked in and he said, “What do
you think about this, Bozzio?” And I said “Wow, Frank. I’m impressed.” He wrote
it because we had done this 40-piece orchestra gig together.
IB: The Abnuceals Orchestra?
TB: Yeah. And he was always hearing the studio
musicians in LA that he was using on that talking about the fear of going into sessions
some morning and being faced with ‘the black page’. So he decided to write his
‘Black Page’. Then he gave it to me, and I could play parts of it right away.
But it wasn’t a pressure thing, it just sat on my music stand and for about 15
minutes every day for 2 weeks before we would rehearse I would work on it. And
after 2 weeks I had it together and I played it for him. And he said, “Great!”
took it home, wrote the melody and the chord changes, brought it back in. And
we all started playing it.
IB: There’s a similar piece called ‘Mo’s Vacation’,
which you’ve described as ‘Ten Black Pages’. Did you actually play that live?
TB: That was sort of what made ‘The Back Page’
obsolete. You know, it was like ‘The Black Page’, but more of it! I always say
with Zappa that the level of difficulty just doesn’t get any worse, it’s just
like more of it to memorise and stuff. But ‘Mo’s Vacation’ had some
really hard stuff in it as well.
IB: I’ve heard a version with Vinnie Colaiuta.
TB: Yeah, it was past me. When I left the band it was
written maybe a year later or so.
IB: He hasn’t actually released that officially.
TB: I thought it was on that album he did with the
London Symphony
IB: Oh, that’s the deluxe orchestral version, ‘Mo ‘N
Herb’s Vacation’. I’m thinking of the rock band rendition.
TB: There’s another piece – a page long – called ‘For
C Instruments’. That’s very difficult.
IB: I think that’s part of the 1st Movement
of ‘Sinister Footwear’. In 1977, you played on the premiere performance of a
song called ‘Envelopes’.
TB: Right
IB: That’s mainly Tommy Mars, with you coming in at
the end – was that just an improvised solo?
TB: Yeah, he used it a sort of a set-up piece for me
to play a drum solo afterwards.
IB: During your stint with Zappa you played with a
whole host of interesting people – I think Flo & Eddie guested at one
point?
TB: Yeah.
IB: Beefheart, Duke – there were also a couple of
ladies: Norma Bell and Bianca Odin. He’s just released one track with Bianca
on, but we haven’t actually had anything from Norma Bell so far.
TB: Norma Bell was a woman who came from Detroit.
She’s a really good saxophone player. She played with Tommy Bolin and, I think,
Ralph Armstrong who was being considered for the gig at the time. He was the Mahavishnu’s
bass player. He suggested her. She played with us on stage somewhere like
Detroit, where she lived, and then Frank brought her along on the road. By the
time we got back to LA at the end of the tour she had pretty much succumbed to,
you know, hanging out with the wrong people and doing a lot of drugs. And so
Frank said, “Forget this!” She wasn’t showing up for rehearsals. She didn’t
last very long. I don’t think we recorded anything with her.
IB: No. He’s not very tolerant of people who use those
naughty substances. You played some interesting places, though – you played
Ljubljana and Zagreb. Do you recall those?
TB: Yeah, definitely. I remember Zagreb was literally
the smokiest gig I’ve ever played in my life. It was so smoky that as a comment
on it I went out and played the show with an unlit cigarette hanging out of my
mouth. The follow spots were like two beacons coming through the fog – like a
lighthouse. I had never been in a hockey rink, with 10,000 people, filled with
so much smoke in my life. It was probably horribly unhealthy. But the gig went
over great. They didn’t say a peep through the whole show – we thought we were
dying a death – then they stood up and cheered for 20 or 30 minutes. As we
left, they were still cheering. It was ridiculous. Then we went to Ljubljana
and I remember that I went out after the gig through the arena, which was
pretty much empty – went up to the mixing board and was just saying hi to my
friends on the crew and there was this guy asleep with his face welded onto the
ice - out on drugs. I just remember those images.
IB: In The Real Frank Zappa book there’s a few
funny stories – I just wondered if you know who the ‘fabulous musician’ was who
gratified a girl with a champagne bottle?
TB: Oh no, I don’t. It was probably way before my
time. It sounds like a pretty common thing to do!
IB: Why did you leave Zappa?
TB: I kind of…(laughs) it isn’t really common,
is it? In the rock ‘n’ roll sense it seems pretty tame compared to some of the
stories I’ve heard. Why did I leave Frank? I auditioned with Group 87 to get a
deal with CBS the day that we started to resume rehearsals again after a break
in Spring of 78. And I went in, I’d cut my hair, I was wearing different
clothes, I’d just played this audition and been offered a deal with a record
company. We started to rehearse, me and Pat, and Frank could tell I wasn’t
really into it. So he called me into his ‘office’, as he would say, we stepped
behind the stage and he said, “I think its time you go off and do your own thing.”
Like a good father would: “Son, its time for you to strike out on your own.”
IB: But you went off then to join UK?
TB: Yeah, I spent about a year not doing much. I
auditioned for Thin Lizzy, that didn’t work out.
IB: You also turned down Jethro Tull?
TB: No, he (sic) didn’t hear me play until I
was with UK, so that wasn’t until 1980 that I got an offer from him. But in 78
it was: I auditioned for Thin Lizzy, did one final tour with the Brecker
Brothers, and then at the end of the year started off with UK. I spent all of
one year with them. And then formed Missing Persons.
IB: Of course, you did appear on ‘Joe’s Garage’ in
1979 as Bald Headed John. Have you got any stories about John Smothers?
TB: He’s a great guy, a wonderful guy. Just a real
character.
IB: You also played on John Wetton’s solo album,
‘King’s Road’?
TB: No. Unless he took this one cut off of what we did
with UK and used it. Because we recorded a song in Japan at a sound check, a
song John wanted to do – sort of a shuffle. I honestly don’t know, but I
thought that was Simon Kirke from Bad Company that played most of that album.
IB: Could you tell me something about Group 87, the
band that featured Peter Wolf and Patrick O’Hearn. Was that actually a proper
band or just a one-off album?
TB: It didn’t feature Peter Wolf; he was sort of an
additional musician. I opted to be an additional musician too because I wanted
to make it more of a rock ‘n’ roll band, and they wanted to make it more of an
instrumental thing. And so I said “Fine. I won’t join the band but I’ll make
the album.” The album didn’t get made until a break in 1979 when I was with UK.
It’s Mark Isham, mainly. Patrick O’Hearn, mainly. And Peter Maunu wrote all the
songs. I arranged a couple of things in there. I did some very inventive drum
beats that I believed were to be he beginnings of my making a stylistic
statement – I don’t believe I made any stylistic statement until I left Zappa,
in terms of innovative drum beats or anything I could call my own. And Mark has
gone on to be a super film score composer. Patrick is scoring for films. Pete’s
on the Arsenio Hall Show.
IB: Patrick O’Hearn seems to have pretty much given up
playing bass to make ‘new age’ albums.
TB: Yeah, he does those albums – he plays bass on
those, but he’s not a professional bass player anymore in terms of working for
other people to make his living. He’s a composer, and he writes really
beautiful music, and plays for himself. I mean, he does odd other things that
people might call him for.
IB: Could you tell me a little about Missing Persons?
TB: We had our 15 minutes, as Andy Warhol would say. I
think it was a really interesting and fun concept that was just something that
would last about that long. I think it was excellent musicians in it; I have
nothing but respect for the musicians. My relationship with Dale was a tragedy.
She had all her problems with drugs and alcohol. And I had a lot of problems
with being co-dependant with her. It was just a chemical firestorm. Anyway, we
never really had a very good relationship and in the end that’s what broke it
all up.
IB: Like Harry and Rhonda?
TB: No. I mean Harry and Rhonda was completely
scripted out by Frank. I just read that stuff.
IB: Chuck Wild was also featured, on “Broadway piano”.
TB: Yeah. Because we went up to Zappa’s one night just
to visit and he said, “Here, read this, read this, read this. Chuck, you play
the piano.” And that was that. We had a lot of fun.
IB: How did you meet up with Jeff Beck for the ‘Guitar
Shop’ album?
TB: Well Jeff had been trying to contact me while I
was still with Missing Persons, and I was always busy. Then I was about to
embark on a clinic tour, and I got called that day to go down and jam with him
and Mick Jagger at a throwaway video set. Evidently Jagger had auditioned a bunch
of drummers and none of them was right and it was the night before it and I
walked in and they liked me so that was that. And I played drums on the video
and was asked to play with Jagger, but I didn’t really want to do it so I asked
for a lot of money. It was a long time commitment, for very few gigs and a lot
of rehearsals, and it just didn’t seem right. So I passed on that. And Jeff
said, “I’d like to use you on my thing. What do you think?” And his manager
flew down a few times, and we talked about forming some sort of band.
Essentially, it was like Jeff’s name but it was really a three-way writing
thing. Tony Hymas wrote most of the music, I guess. I wrote a little. Jeff
wrote a little.
IB: That’s your voice on ‘A Day In The House’ and ‘Guitar
Shop’, isn’t it?
TB: Yeah, just doing some vocal stuff. The tracks were
just kind of lacking. Jeff’s sort of odd to work with because he’s not really a
writer. And, you know, it’s hard to sort of….er...
IB: Is Punky really more fluid?
TB: No (laughs). Jeff Beck is definitely
the best guitar player I’ve ever played with. I mean, Frank is another great
guitar player; he’s got his own style. Jeff is just wonderful, though.
IB: Yeah, I’ve been a fan of his for some time.
TB: I think Zappa is, even (laughs).
IB: You played on the soundtrack to the film Twins…
[Interruption: Jerome Markus of REMO brings a bemused
Terry 4 oranges. The Idiot Bastard asks if he’s gonna juggle them during his
solo.]
IB: …did you actually appear in that film?
TB: I don’t know if I appear. I know I did a close-up
one morning. All I know was that was like 3 days in hell being wallpaper on a
movie. But I made $5,000 and bought my tape machine.
IB: And you left Beck shortly after that?
TB: No, no, no. We did the album; we did a tour of
Japan, a tour of the States with Stevie Ray Vaughan, and then a tour of Europe.
Came to London, Jeff pulled out his back.
IB: That’s right.
TB: Then we re-scheduled the Hammersmith gigs, did
those. Went into the studio for 3 days, and that’s when Tony quit. And then
Jeff and I tried to get something together with Roger Daltrey, which never
happened. Auditioned to sort of jam with Paul Young and Pino Palladino; that
wasn’t a good match. Then we started writing some stuff ourselves. I went home
to LA, worked with Richard Marx, and I haven’t heard from Jeff since. I gave
him a call yesterday; I hope to see him while I’m here but Jeff’s sort of
reclusive!
IB: I understand you’re now working with Steve Vai?
TB: Yeah, I just finished making his album.
IB: Is it actually a proper band?
TB: I really don’t know. He would like it to be. My
definition of a band is an unconditional acceptance of all members. So far,
what I’m doing is playing drums on Steve Vai’s music. And that I consider more of
a session gig than being in a band with the guy.
IB: Is that playing more structured songs than the
‘Passion And Warfare’ album?
TB: Yeah, its much more structured songs. There’s a
little bit of out stuff, but for the most part its sort of AOR heavy metal.
IB: It was rumoured that you might turn up for the Zappa’s
Universe tribute concerts that happened last year.
TB: I was in New York at the time, and I heard about
it there. I was doing a clinic tour, and the day I played somebody asked me
“Are you gonna go play at The Ritz for the Zappa’s Universe thing?” I
said, “What?!” And he said, “Dale’s there, Steve’s there,” all these people
there. I said, “No, I haven’t been asked and I’m flying to Boston directly
after this gig.” So that was that.
IB: Have you heard Dweezil’s versions of ‘Broken
Hearts Are For Assholes’ and ‘I’m So Cute’?
TB: No!
IB: On his new album, I understand there’s a version
of Cream’s ‘White Room’ – did you play on that?
TB: No!!
IB: What sort of stuff have you been playing?
TB: I played on something called ‘Dan Halen’ (laughs).
I played on a lot of bits and pieces of stuff that were really difficult, and I
had not time to get them together and I was really challenged by Dweezil. He
had been, you know…when you work with anybody with the last name Zappa you
don’t have a life, you know, you just play that music. It’s great when you’re
young, but at this point in my life I’d rather do my own music. I went in for
one week and cut I guess 8 or 9 tracks with Dweezil of some of the most difficult
stuff I’ve had to do since I left Frank. It was just ridiculous. And it wasn’t
written out, I had like bits and pieces of the hard bits scribbled out by Mike
or….er?
IB: By Mike Keneally?
TB: Mike Keneally or what’s his name?
IB: Scott Thunes?
TB: Yeah.
IB: Coz Dweezil doesn’t actually write music, does he?
TB: No. Dweezil doesn’t know what he’s doing; he just
memorises it and tells everybody else to play it! Quite like Frank in a lot of
ways, but Frank would write as well. But yeah, I think it was some really good
stuff – some really interesting beats and grooves.
IB: Yeah, I think Dweezil’s really progressed over 3
albums – the last one was definitely the best to date – and when I saw him on
tour last year I was really impressed. And he played some of his dad’s tunes as
well. Which was nice.
***
A fredited version of this interview originally
appeared in Issue 28 of T’Mershi Duween. Drawing of “You tell me!” by
Terry Bozzio.